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Post by Pacey Witter on May 21, 2010 1:16:20 GMT
A comment made by Peyton Sawyer (the member) in reference to comments other people have been saying on the 'net inspired me to create this thread. I've always thought that there were two sets of best friends on the show: Lucas and Haley and Brooke and Peyton (Sorry, Nate.  ) Now, Brooke and Peyton have definitely been hostile to each other, specifically in high school (but who isn't a bitch in high school?), but have, in my opinion, always cared tremendously about each other. Peyton was the more artistic, mature, inner-bitch, while Brooke was the sexually-active, naive, outer-bitch. Again, basically only in high school. Both women grow to love each other (They always have, imo, but are more able to support each other later on). Haley is also a great friend, but seems a little distanced from Peyton and Brooke. As in, when there are "best friend" scenes with Haley and Brooke and/or Peyton, it doesn't flow as naturally as it does with just B and P. That said, I think Brooke and Peyton were better friends than Haley and Brooke and Haley and Peyton. Thoughts? |
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Post by Peyton Sawyer on May 21, 2010 10:34:22 GMT
I think in terms of who has the 'best friendship' that I would love to have it's definitely Brooke and Peyton. Post the Psycho Derek attack they are just the epitome of friendship. Both of them, despite their own problems are more concerned with the other and there's an honesty between them that I think the others lack. In seasons five and six, they can tell each other what they think without it turning into an argument. Even Lucas and Haley can lack this sometimes, largely due to Haley's difficulty in not be judgemental, lol.
I always found Haley to be quite submissive in her 'best friend' role to Brooke, it lacks the honesty. If Brooke was doing something that Haley didn't think was good for her or whatever, she just used to sigh and keep her mouth shut. But a best friend is someone who should kick you in the ass when you need it. I really liked how good friends Haley and Peyton were only on, but even if it had continued I don't think it would have been a patch on Peyton/Brooke.
So, in summary: Breyton FTW! lol
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Post by Marisa on May 21, 2010 16:28:05 GMT
Breyton for sure thats who I say they had ups and downs but every friendship does but by the end they were the term Best friends completely.
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Post by somefaith on Jun 7, 2010 22:05:53 GMT
Post the Psycho Derek attack they are just the epitome of friendship. It's easy to neglect to count for the most glaring issues their friendship suffered; boys and betrayal and only add up the good points of their relationship. But that would be a little unfair if we're doing a realistic assessment of how ~true~ a friendship is in comparison to another, wouldn't it? It's funny when people call Haley judgmental but give no examples. You mean judgmental like Brooke was when Peyton cheated on her with Lucas and not only verbally reprimanded her but also physically, by slapping Peyton? Or maybe in season three, when Brooke begged Lucas to say all bad things about her "best friend" just to validate her own relationship and wash away her insecurities? Or maybe when Brooke judged Peyton by making fun of her mother's death? Or judgmental like Peyton was when Haley returned to Nathan in season three? Or judgmental like Peyton when Brooke slept with Nathan when NP had the most incredibly dysfunctional relationship? Or judgmental like the time when Peyton met Lindsey? I'm sorry to say but BP are just as "judgmental" as Haley; if not MORE. I'm just curious...when did this happen? And I'm pretty sure Haley didn't cower in the presence of Brooke. In fact, in season three I can easily remember the explosive disagreement they had over Haley's wedding dress. I'm my honest opinion, Lucas/Haley had the most organic/consistently stable relationship this show has ever seen. They never fought in the proportions of Brooke/Peyton simply because they were always, always on the same page. I was watching season 6 today and Lucas told Haley he wanted to spend the rest of his life with Peyton. And unlike the poster who said Haley was "judgmental", despite the fact that Haley spent the last season consoling Lucas and shaving his head from his last wedding gone wrong, she told Lucas (and I'm paraphrasing here) "are you happy [...] that's all counts. The only people that tear happy people down are those that are unhappy." She was there for Lucas, in and out. So my verdict? Laley by a long shot. They're the most sane and healthy relationship on this show. And that's saying a lot for a couple on OTH; otherwise all the other friendship are either neglected or just as dysfunctional as the next. |
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Post by Peyton Sawyer on Jun 7, 2010 22:54:18 GMT
It's easy to neglect to count for the most glaring issues their friendship suffered; boys and betrayal and only add up the good points of their relationship. But that would be a little unfair if we're doing a realistic assessment of how ~true~ a friendship is in comparison to another, wouldn't it? Given that those betrayals and boy issues were in high school and incredibly likely to destroy any kind of relationship, they came back from that fighting and showing that none of those 'glaring issues' were actually that glaring in comparison to what they could overcome together post all the high school crap. And that, to me, is friendship. Most of these examples, while being justified criticisms of the BP friendship, scream insecurity and spite to me, not judgement. Me saying that Haley is judgemental in no way means that no other character is; or that she is the only one. That is not what I said at all. Haley's instances of being judgemental spring from her deciding what is right or wrong from her own personal standards before taking the time to consider how the people who are actually involved might be feeling at the time, like Peyton in season five and her dealing with Lucas. So one instance of an argument over something actually quite stupid that escalated to the level that it did means she's not submissive? But Haley says nothing when Brooke speaks badly of Peyton after the first Psycho Derek attack or says anything substantial about her 'pick a team' speech asking Haley to choose sides? She laughs it off as something stupid when usually, if it had been anyone else, she would have stood up and said something about how pathetic it was. Well choosing one friendship over another is hardly tearing them down because of unhappiness is it? Especially given what you've said about BP in particular. And me choosing a preference for the BP friendship as the one I enjoy experiencing the most, doesn't mean that I think Lucas/Haley count for nothing. It was an amazing friendship and I have always admired Mark for maintaining it as a friendship and never caving into making it something romantic but that being said, I find BP much more endearing given what they overcame. On a side note, this is the sort of juicy debate I've been looking for!  |
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Post by Pacey Witter on Jun 8, 2010 0:59:59 GMT
I don't think Haley was being submissive... Haley was all about her morals and right vs. wrong. Maybe she just didn't want to get heavily involved? She's always hated drama, lol.
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Post by somefaith on Jun 8, 2010 1:39:26 GMT
Given that those betrayals and boy issues were in high school and incredibly likely to destroy any kind of relationship, they came back from that fighting and showing that none of those 'glaring issues' were actually that glaring in comparison to what they could overcome together post all the high school crap. And that, to me, is friendship. It didn't destroy LH's relatiponship. LOL. I'm serious. Nathan was the biggest obstacle their relationship faced and they saw it through. BP barely made it to the finish line. Judgements are the byproduct of insecurity and spite. They were judgemental because of whatever they were feeling. OK, but how does her being judgemental become a relevant way to minimize her relationship with anyone, if it's not used in the same way to assess other relationships? |
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Post by Peyton Sawyer on Jun 8, 2010 17:14:14 GMT
It didn't destroy LH's relatiponship. LOL. I'm serious. Nathan was the biggest obstacle their relationship faced and they saw it through. BP barely made it to the finish line. I'm not entirely sure why you've mentioned LH's relationship not being destroyed? I think you might have misunderstood me. The bit you quoted from me was solely about BP and how they realised all that high school crap was just that: crap, and overcame it and nothing at all to do with LH. BP barely made it to season four. Now they would have no trouble making it to the finishing line. Yes they can be a byproduct of insecurity and spite, but they also spring from ignorance and arrogance (not that I'm saying Haley is either, she's most certainly not). I think long term insecurity and spite will cause you to be judgemental but the examples you gave were impulsive actions that derived from anger, jealousy and insecurity. Later they would have caused them to be judgemental, I agree, but it wasn't judgement that drove them to those actions in those moments. You have a fair point here, it doesn't really affect her relationships. Although at times it has. Her behaviour when Quinn first returned could have ruined them quite easily. That's the judgemental Haley I speak of, by the way. That pretty much covers it. She could at least be consistent! Is that the royal 'we' or were you referring to me? It's hardly a selective memory, rather an alternative interpretation, which does not make it 'selective' simply because it differs from yours. I haven't gone out of my way to pretend certain things didn't happen. As for giving a list of reasons why Haley should be forgiven for all of it, well you could do that with any character, couldn't you? I agree with the fact that they were able to avoid petty issues for the sake of the friendship. It could be argued, just as you blamed a scene being cut short, that as LH weren't provided with storylines (aside from Nathan in S1) that could have rocked their relationship, it's easy to claim how solid they are. But I'm not really laying into LH here. The most I've said is given reasons as to why I sometimes dislike Haley. At no point have I dismissed the LH friendship, just praised BP. |
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Post by brucasfan on Jun 8, 2010 23:31:01 GMT
I will admit, I am not a fan of breyton. waaay too much betrayal and I feel like sometimes they had a friendship of convenience. For example, when Peyton was shot, from what I understood, Brooke didn't go see her once in the hospital. Yes, she was with Lucas and Karen, but I think they could have survived Brooke making a phone call or a trip to go check on Peyton. Or how once they were separated after Season 4 and they had their own lives, they lost contact. They haven't done much for each other except forgive each other for doing and saying hurtful things to each other.
I'm a big Brooke/Haley friendship fan. Once they got to know each other in Season 3 they became close and really helped each other out. When the writers actually put the two of them in the same room for S7 you could see their closeness.
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Post by Marisa on Jun 9, 2010 3:58:44 GMT
I will admit, I am not a fan of breyton. waaay too much betrayal and I feel like sometimes they had a friendship of convenience. For example, when Peyton was shot, from what I understood, Brooke didn't go see her once in the hospital. Yes, she was with Lucas and Karen, but I think they could have survived Brooke making a phone call or a trip to go check on Peyton. Or how once they were separated after Season 4 and they had their own lives, they lost contact. They haven't done much for each other except forgive each other for doing and saying hurtful things to each other. I'm a big Brooke/Haley friendship fan. Once they got to know each other in Season 3 they became close and really helped each other out. When the writers actually put the two of them in the same room for S7 you could see their closeness. I agree with what you mean about Brooke and Haley because like you said in season 7 there was this moment with just the two of them and Quinn came in eventually but it was a wonderful moment. I do think in the high school years Brooke and Peyton had their struggles but through the later season is when they really grew to me. I think in those seasons they were best friends. But they did grow apart but once Peyton made a phone call Brooke came back for her. |
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Post by True Love on Jun 21, 2010 22:24:17 GMT
Brooke and Peyton were good friends since they were kids. But in my opinion Peyton made some bad mistakes later, and she really didn't agree on hoes before broes. When Brooke fristly asked her does she feels anything for Lucas, she said she doesn't, but she clearly did. She wasn't honest, and later in season 4, she said to Brooke that she was always honest with her, which is clearly one big mistake. They had their ups and downs, but in the end they were good friends.
When Peyton left Brooke/Haley friendship swimmed to the surface, and we saw the true beauty of it. I can't say I love them more, because their friendship wasn't tested like Brooke/Peyton was.
I loved Haley and Lucas at the begining, but why years, they fell apart, so in the end I didn't even had feeling they're best friends anymore.
When we lost Brucas as couple, in the end of season 4 when Brooke told Lucas at the court that Peyton is the one for him, and later in season 5, they became really good friends. I enjoyed their friendship, and they turned into something beautiful, that I didn't even wanted for them to become a couple again.
But I guess the longest running friendship is Haley/Nathan and Mouth/Skills. Haley and Nathan became good friends over the years. They fell in love, but they still stayed friends.
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Post by Peyton Sawyer on Jun 21, 2010 22:34:31 GMT
I think the problems that Brooke and Peyton had weren't down to one of them individually. They both made mistakes and treated each other terribly. Peyton's no more at fault than Brooke was.
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Post by True Love on Jun 22, 2010 22:50:24 GMT
I think the problems that Brooke and Peyton had weren't down to one of them individually. They both made mistakes and treated each other terribly. Peyton's no more at fault than Brooke was. Agreed. But the thing I hated most about them is that they never talked about stuff. They always kept their feeling in, and every now and then they cracked, there was a big fight and nice Breyton moment, and then we go again. Season 5 was the only season we didn't had that. |
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Post by Peyton Sawyer on Jun 22, 2010 23:33:26 GMT
Yeah they definitely had communication problems in the beginning. You're right that if Peyton had said 'yes, I do still have feelings for Lucas, I'm just scared' then Brooke would never had pursued him in the first place.
The reason I love their relationship in season five, well from post Pyscho Derek #2 is that they finally managed to move past that and sustain the amazing friendship they were always capable of having. They did talk to each other and they were honest.
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